Wonderful NSWGR? photos

Station Master

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Chief Commissioner
WOW this is some good stuff........

Thanks for sharing that 😃
Minister for Railways
Station Master
I was amzed to to the 1890s Eveleigh train shed photos.

I have never seen such a photo of them complete in my lifetime yet.

That was one big shed .. wonder why was it removed, when it looked so heritage style with the 3 domes ... proably held a few locos?

Chief Commissioner
Certainly, a great collection of photos illustrating aspects of the old NSWGR. I'm so ancient that I can recall working for it back in the 1960s!

Some adjustments regarding the Sydney single deck suburban electric stock:

There is a commonly held belief that Dr Bradfield designed the "Bradfield" cars. That is not so, as can be seen from their general arrangement drawings, which bear testimony to Chief Mechanical Engineer Lucy's signature oversighting their design and construction. [Further information on these vehicles can be found in "Coaching Stock of the NSW Railways - Vol.1" (Eveleigh Press, Sydney) 1999; pp200-05].

Dr Bradfield did, however, bring the notion of NYC subway car design back to Sydney with him in 1915, but was "coy" on their internal layout: what was not publicised was that a 7-car train of that type of rollingstock required a train crew of 8-9 persons, including the provision of a "leverman" in each carriage to manually open and close doors along the sides of each vehicle concerned. [Before the mid-1920s, it would appear that only London Transport had power doors in their then newly-built subway stock - and it needs to be remembered that contracts for the first of Sydney's steel single deck suburban electric cars had been considered and let by 1924].

The wide-bodied wooden-bodied cars are normally identified as "1921-type motor cars" carrying the EBB (first-class) and EFA (second-class) codes as applicable, as they had been introduced prior to the phasing out of first-class accommodation over the Sydney suburban cars with effect from 1 January 1940. The "1921" Sydney cars, according to specific items of rolling stock, received the following reclassifications upon receipt of electrical equipment:

Control Motor Cars - CB (first-class); CF (second-class).
Non-control Motor Cars - NB (first-class); NF (second-class).
Control Trailer Cars - DB (first-class); DF (second-class).
Non-control Trailer Cars - TB (first-class); TF (second-class).

These generic codes were also applied to the "Standard" steel cars prior to 1940.

"Coaching Stock of the NSW Railways - Vol.1"[/i:09c88c5bcf]at page 200, says that in relation to the 1921-type cars:

"These cars were the first to be built to the new Australian Structure Gauge, following the recommendation by Bradfield that the maximum length and width be used on new stock designed for electric service. Consequently, they have become known unofficially as "Bradfield cars", although the cars were designed by Lucy. They were not based on contemporary New York cars, as the original 1915-16 proposals had the cars sharing much with the Victorian Railways' Tait cars, a door for each pair of facing seats, corridor along the centre line and two four-motor bogies. ... By the time that it had been built, the design had been modified, lessening the number of doors. Advances in technology made it possible for two 1500 volt motors to be fitted in lieu of four 750 volt motors."

[At this juncture, I might add that a photograph of "Bradfield" car EFA2139 (later renumbered 3091) fitted with Victorian Railways electrical equipment and a pair of Victorian Railways motor bogies can be found on p83 of "First Stop Central" (AETA, Sydney, 1963). This equipment was fitted to EFA2139 on 13 July 1925].

Back to "Coaching Stock of the NSW Railways - Vol.1";

p.200 - regarding to the 1921-type cars: "A combination of 3 x 2 seating was fitted, with the terminal cars listed as capacity 82 and the intermediate cars 90, although the floor plan shows the capacities as being 73 and 81 respectively. The difference was made up by folding seats located in some vestibules. One double-width and three single-width passenger entrances were located along each side. The double-width entrance had one set of doors permanently closed in electric service.

In electric service, the 1921-type motor cars had capacities of 64 and 73 seats, although the cars rebuilt to the Standard car design during the 1960s ended up having 67 seats. The widened wooden trailers had nominal capacities of 68 seats (ordinary trailers) and 59 seats (cars with guard's compartment) compared with their original capacities (60 seats and 52 seats, respectively).

The capacities of the "Standard" steel motor cars were originally 79 seats (although some non-driving motor cars had 81 seats). Varying internal layouts had some Standard motor cars with capacities of between 71 and 77 (those later fitted with large guard's compartments ended up with 59 seats); the Standard trailers had between 69 and 81 over their lifetime, again the higher capacities being the result of folding seats later removed.

There was a reason for the decrease in the capacities of many Standard cars. Commencing in 1938, there was a program to change the transverse seating to longitudinal seating in the end saloons; this being done to allow better circulation of passengers away from the vestibules. By the mid-1960s, most Standard cars had been so altered.

The loss of a few seats in most Standard cars has to be balanced against the higher seating capacity of the Tulloch double-deck trailers introduced from 1964: each of these double deckers entered service with 132 seats compared with 69 to 73 seats in single deck trailers - around 60 seats per double deck car increase.

The abandonment of first-class travel in 1940 meant that the Sydney fleet had greater flexibility in terms of rolling stock rostering. [Aside from the removal of class distinction, one-class travel meant that specific cars could be allocated to "non-smoking" accommodation - just read the "1938 Working of Electric Trains Book" to see what I mean].

The 1940-built Tulloch motor cars (and the first three post-WW2 motor cars) had 64 seats.

The 1950-type Tulloch motor cars (large guard's compartment) had 56 seats.

Both 1940- and 1950-type Tulloch trailers had a capacity of 72 seats.

The Comeng-built Sputnik power cars had 59 seats.

The Comeng-built Sputnik trailers had 70 seats.

All Comeng and Tulloch cars were fitted with longitudinal seating in their end saloons when built.
Minister for Railways
The "1921" Sydney cars, according to specific items of rolling stock, received the following reclassifications upon receipt of electrical equipment:

Control Motor Cars - CB (first-class); CF (second-class).
Non-control Motor Cars - NB (first-class); NF (second-class).
Control Trailer Cars - DB (first-class); DF (second-class).
Non-control Trailer Cars - TB (first-class); TF (second-class).

These generic codes were also applied to the "Standard" steel cars prior to 1940.


While I normally agree with Paul on things that I have read in reliable reference books, like "First Stop Central", neither Paul nor I are old enough to recall two class suburban electric trains.

Ross Willson gave me a very poor quality scan of two 1920s weekly notices, quite some time ago and I found them on the hard drive and started reading them, and started thinking - wow, we've been wrong all these years!

In the case of the codes, I had seen them written as:

C-B, C-F, T-B, T-F, N-B, N-F, D-B and D-F

but never understood the meaning of the dashes.

Equally, I'd never seen the class letters on photos of electric cars.

But the weekly notice indicated that the dash represented the car number, and that a car was to be described as C3150B for example, with the class letter always following the number. The notice specifically indicated that "under no circumstances" was the car to be described as "CB3150" (again for example - I don't mean to imply that 3150 was first class, I just havent checked).

This, at once explains why I've never seen a car lettered CB or CF, because they were never so lettered. To revert to my example C3150 would be lettered just that, and the "B" conveyed by the first class markings.

This may have changed subsequently to the weekly notice, but I don't have any information on that.

A similar notice described the target plate system, and this clearly had changed by the time I first saw a train.

Apparently, at the time the notice was issued (1929) the eight car train was divided into two four car sets, the example given being set M7.

The four cars at the Sydney end of the set carried plates reading "M7" and the Mortdale end set carried plates reading "M7a", Clearly, this later changed to the two four car sets being lettered "M7a" and "M7b".

Anyway, I thought I'd just throw in some information that seems to have been overlooked.


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